Rav EV arrives at midnight, just in time for a road trip

[smkettner]

I believe charging does taper during the last step for extended range.
Otherwise full 10 kW to the top of normal.

 

[DevinL]

There're two 100A Sun Country EVSEs in Hamilton.

 

[jimbo69ny]

There're two 100A Sun Country EVSEs in Hamilton.

I just googled the town but it's pretty far out of the way. Thank you very much for looking for me though.

I found Beaver spring lake campground and they have a few 14-50 outlets and its on my way but no one is answering. I don't want to take the risk of leaving here if I can't charge there for certain.

Ps I just gained 5 miles in 30 minutes on this charge point station. Is that normal? It seems low.

 

[fooljoe]

I don't see how this could be true but does the car charge quicker if I don't select extended range mode. Ie if I charged for 2 hours in regular mode and 2 in ext range mode, wouldn't I still have the same charge regardless?

Google says home is 124 miles away, so I need that and a buffer. My car currently says the remaining charge time is 9 hours 43 minutes. Shitty..... :/

It charges at the same rate whether normal or extended up until the last 30 minutes or so of an extended charge, when the the rate starts to taper off as you near 100% SOC, so if you don't need that extra little bit at the top you could save some time by unplugging a little early. For 124 miles, and not having grown accustomed to driving efficiently in the Rav, I'd definitely let it go all the way though.

The best way to view your trip efficiency is to have the display in the map mode with a "split screen" energy monitor display at the right. And make sure to reset both your trip odometer and efficiency meter at the start of each drive. For 124 miles and a full extended charge I'd make sure you're maintaining at least 3.1 miles/kwh. Of course if there's significant elevation change near the end of your trip you'd need to account for that.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Iam kinda stuck here for a long time. I didn't realize a full extended range charge was going to take 9+ hours on a charge point 5-6kwh station. Sucks. I'm probably not going to get home till midnight.

Miles Gained per Hour Charging @ 87.5% charger efficiency
70F Ambient temperature - hotter or colder will decrease miles gained

----------------------------- 2.7 miles/kWh - 3.4 miles/kWh
------------ Amps/Volts ---- City Drive ----- 65mph

NEMA 5-15 - 12 / 120 ----- 2.8 miles ------ 3.5 miles (North American wall socket)
NEMA 5-20 - 16 / 120 ----- 3.8 miles ------ 4.7 miles (motel air conditioners)
NEMA 10-30- 24 / 240 --- 13.6 miles ----- 17.7 miles (old style dryer outlet)
NEMA 14-30- 24 / 240 --- 13.6 miles ----- 17.7 miles (new style dryer outlet)
J1772 ------- 30 / 208 --- 14.8 miles ----- 18.7 miles (typical public J1772)
J1772 ------- 30 / 240 --- 17.1 miles ----- 21.6 miles (rare 240 volt public J1772)
NEMA 6-50 -- 40 / 240 -- 22.7 miles ----- 28.5 miles (welder outlet)
NEMA 14-50- 40 / 240 -- 22.7 miles ----- 28.5 miles (RV park "50 amp service")

 

[TonyWilliams]

I barely made it to Suny. I had 65 miles on the gom and the "battery very low" warning came on. Google said the stop was 47 miles away when I left I think. Gom said I had 12 miles left but warning lights were coming on. I made it though.

Trying to do long drives based on the GOM is going to get old really fast. Please try this chart:

Google says home is 124 miles away, so I need that and a buffer. My car currently says the remaining charge time is 9 hours 43 minutes. Shitty..... :/

I would fully charge the car in your "newbie" state. Then drive 65mph steady speed OR LESS. The cruise control is your friend for these drives when longest range really matters.

If it's cooling down, you need to remember to TURN OFF THE HEATER and use only the seat heater.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The best way to view your trip efficiency is to have the display in the map mode with a "split screen" energy monitor display at the right. And make sure to reset both your trip odometer and efficiency meter at the start of each drive. For 124 miles and a full extended charge I'd make sure you're maintaining at least 3.1 miles/kwh. Of course if there's significant elevation change near the end of your trip you'd need to account for that.

Great advice. With a full charge, you can see how 3.1 miles per kWh is your "drop dead" minimum, since 3.1 * 41.8kWh = 129.8 miles, and you need to go 124 miles. That is REALLY cutting it close.

When you're in that center economy screen, you can hit "Update" and then "Clear" once you begin your journey. And reset that trip odometer.

HEATER OFF !!!!

 

[jimbo69ny]

How iron clad is that chart Tony?

Right now I have 16 bars and 81 miles on the gom. According to that chart I could drive 133 miles at 55 mph. That would get me home.

However, I still have 2 and a half hours to complete a "normal charge". I cancelled the extended charge just to see what happened with the time.

The nice thing is that I just walked about 4 miles into town for dinner and met some very nice people.

 

[TonyWilliams]

How iron clad is that chart Tony?

Right now I have 16 bars and 81 miles on the gom. According to that chart I could drive 133 miles at 55 mph. That would get me home.

The chart is rock solid, but you have to have good data. Elevation is huge, as is wind, and finally temperature.

Give us the current address and destination address and we can determine what effect elevation has. Generally, 2kWh per 1000 feet rise.

Finally, stop using the GOM. It provides ZERO valuable information.

When the car goes from 3 fuel bars to 2 fuel bars, you will get the Low Battery Warning (LBW on the chart). When you go from 2 to 1, Very Low Battery (VLB) pops up. When there are no longer any fuel bars, you get Climate Control Limited (CCL).

Finally, don't cut it so close. Yes, you could likely drive 55mph right now and maybe make it. It all depends on elevation, wind, and temperature. I'd recommend, however, driving 50mph instead, assuming the variables can all be accounted for.

 

[jimbo69ny]

How iron clad is that chart Tony?

Right now I have 16 bars and 81 miles on the gom. According to that chart I could drive 133 miles at 55 mph. That would get me home.

The chart is rock solid, but you have to have good data. Elevation is huge, as is wind, and finally temperature.

Give us the current address and destination address and we can determine what effect elevation has. Generally, 2kWh per 1000 feet rise.

Finally, stop using the GOM. It provides ZERO valuable information.

When the car goes from 3 fuel bars to 2 fuel bars, you will get the Low Battery Warning (LBW on the chart). When you go from 2 to 1, Very Low Battery (VLB) pops up. When there are no longer any fuel bars, you get Climate Control Limited (CCL).

Finally, don't cut it so close. Yes, you could likely drive 55mph right now and maybe make it. It all depends on elevation, wind, and temperature. I'd recommend, however, driving 50mph instead, assuming the variables can all be accounted for.

I'm at Suny Cobleskill now and I need to get to 882 West Dryden rd freeville NY 13068

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm at Suny Cobleskill now and I need to get to 882 West Dryden rd freeville NY 13068

1180 feet - 882 West Dryden Rd, Freeville, NY

963 feet - Suny Cobleskill

The weather is beautiful, in the 60's F temperature, and no significant wind.

Please take the north route through highway 20 if you think that will more likely allow you to drive 50mph.

Otherwise, take the freeway if you think it's safe at 50mph. Use the four way flashers if you need them.

Reset your trip and economy meters, and HEATER OFF !!!

 

[jimbo69ny]

Which is better?
A. Keep cruise set at 50mph
Or
B. Speed up to 65 ish to hypermile if/when a semi passes/

 

[TonyWilliams]

Which is better?
A. Keep cruise set at 50mph
Or
B. Speed up to 65 ish to hypermile if/when a semi passes/

I'm not sure what "hypermiling" would include accelerating (waste of energy) to 65mph.

Set the cruise control at whatever speed you determine will work with the data I've given. Do NOT try to control speed with your right foot... You won't beat the automation.

Accelerating and deaccllerating are the worst things you can do for economy.

Drafting a truck will certainly improve your economy, but speeding up to follow a truck is not.

 

[jimbo69ny]

I said 65 because that is what a semi could be doing on the highway. That number could be anything.

I was basically wondering if it would be better to stay at 50 and not follow anything or if I would be better off following a semi even if I need to speed up. Does drafting save you more than driving slower?

 

[jimbo69ny]

I made it home no problem. Much further though and I would've had issues.

I took a northern route this time. For some reason the car said it was much less mileage than the way I drove out. Not sure how it's possible but the car nav said the second route was something like 121 and the route I came out on was 156ish. Idk, regardless, Here is the route I took out there.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/882+W+Dryden+Rd,+Freeville,+NY+13068/SUNY+Cobleskill,+106+Suffolk+Cir,+Cobleskill,+NY+12043/@42.4780545,-75.4710241,10z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x89da78036ac75299:0xd1b96d927a46f918!2m2!1d-76.4445662!2d42.5163186!1m5!1m1!1s0x89dc26b546cf802d:0x9bee8a3e7b8a8e10!2m2!1d-74.497987!2d42.672752

And this is the way I took back home.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/882+W+Dryden+Rd,+Freeville,+NY,+USA/SUNY+Cobleskill,+106+Suffolk+Cir,+Cobleskill,+NY+12043/@42.4719771,-75.5094762,10z/data=!4m24!4m23!1m15!1m1!1s0x89da78036ac75299:0xd1b96d927a46f918!2m2!1d-76.4445662!2d42.5163186!3m4!1m2!1d-76.1710176!2d42.5980313!3s0x89da6b843822d2eb:0x66aa8876aa3c4c54!3m4!1m2!1d-75.4958468!2d42.5482955!3s0x89dbb86e3a112abd:0xf8bd15015f520e4d!1m5!1m1!1s0x89dc26b546cf802d:0x9bee8a3e7b8a8e10!2m2!1d-74.497987!2d42.672752!3e0
I cant say that one was better than the other. I made it fine both ways although if the Suny station was just 10 miles further from home I dont think I would've made it. As it was I did 47-50 mph on a highway thats listed at 65 mph

Here are some photos.
I forgot to reset the odo before I left so the mileage should be about 5 miles higher. As you will sell see, I had 2 bars left. I would've had more but once I got within 30 mins of home I had so many bars left I turned the heat on for a few minutes and I sped up. I should've continued the same strategy but I was cold and I wanted to get home. Haha

 

[TonyWilliams]

I said 65 because that is what a semi could be doing on the highway. That number could be anything.

I was basically wondering if it would be better to stay at 50 and not follow anything or if I would be better off following a semi even if I need to speed up. Does drafting save you more than driving slower?

Honestly, drafting is far too dangerous if you are getting a significant advantage (basically, right on the truck's rear bumper).

If you will stay the recommended safe distance behind a truck, there's little gain, if any.

So, no, I don't believe it is better to drive 65mph SAFELY behind a truck as opposed to driving 50mph.

Good job getting 3.4 miles/kWh. You can see why I said not to shave the margins too close. You got the composite economy of 65mph on level ground.

I can't imagine getting too cold with the seat heater on. Did you have a jacket? What was the outside temperature?

********

Drafting trucks and overinflated tires:

http://green.autoblog.com/2007/10/28/mythbusters-drafting-10-feet-behind-a-big-rig-will-improve-mile/

Mythbusters did an episode about "Big Rig" trucks that included a look at drafting and they found drafting increases your miles per gallon up to 39 percent at 10 feet distance away from a big rig. At two feet apart however, they found miles per gallon actually went down.


100 feet behind - 11% increase in economy

50 feet behind -- 20% increase in economy

20 feet behind -- 27% increase in economy

10 feet behind -- 39% increase in economy


Mythbusters tested the effects of overinflated tires on fuel efficiency (episode 153 - Mini Myth Mayhem). They found that overinflating the tires (60 psi vs. 35 psi, which is the manufacturer's recommendation) reduced the fuel consumption of their test vehicle (a sedan) for about 7.6%. They also tested slightly-overinflated tires (40 psi) with the same car, resulting in a 6.2% decrease in fuel consumption.

 

[pchilds]

Mythbusters tested the effects of overinflated tires on fuel efficiency (episode 153 - Mini Myth Mayhem). They found that overinflating the tires (60 psi vs. 35 psi, which is the manufacturer's recommendation) reduced the fuel consumption of their test vehicle (a sedan) for about 7.6%. They also tested slightly-overinflated tires (40 psi) with the same car, resulting in a 6.2% decrease in fuel consumption.

The Toyota dealer dropped my pressure from 44 to 36, my m/kWh dropped by .2-.3.

 

[jimbo69ny]

I did see the drafting episode. It was good. I was surprised the difference it made. I have not yet seen the tire pressure episode. I am very surprised that it reduced their fuel economy! That doesnt seem right.

I definitely agree that safety is more important Tony. I really like your chart and I will use that going forward. Its pretty awesome that we could potentially drive 200 miles with the right conditions. When will you be releasing a final draft and removing "Draft Document"?

Thank you for the congrats. I think I am a pretty efficient driver and I am excited to see how I will do with this car. I've always done quite well with my Prii. The route home included a lot of up and down "bunny hills". Many times I put the car in neutral going down and got up to 60-70 then let the momentum carry me up the next hill. Despite the elevation numbers you gave me between Ithaca NY and Cobleskill, I felt like most of the trip was down hill. I had quite a few long down hills that I did a lot of regening on.

I wasnt really dressed for the cold. It was mid 80s during the day in Albany so I had shorts and a tshirt on. I did bring a blanket with me so I had that wrapped around me as I drove. It got down to 50 and it was raining. I dont know how many bars I would've had left if I didnt speed up and turn the heat on but just wanted to get back.

I did end up doing a full extended charge in Cobleskill. It took about 9 1/2 hours :/

 

[TonyWilliams]

I did see the drafting episode. It was good. I was surprised the difference it made. I have not yet seen the tire pressure episode. I am very surprised that it reduced their fuel economy! That doesnt seem right.

It IMPROVED ECONOMY, and DECREASED CONSUMPTION with the higher air pressure.

I definitely agree that safety is more important Tony. I really like your chart and I will use that going forward. Its pretty awesome that we could potentially drive 200 miles with the right conditions. When will you be releasing a final draft and removing "Draft Document"?

The computer that I had that on crashed the hard drive. Someday...

Despite the elevation numbers you gave me between Ithaca NY and Cobleskill, I felt like most of the trip was down hill. I had quite a few long down hills that I did a lot of regening on.

That's why we use real data for this. Also, remember regen is never as efficient as not using the energy to begin with.

So, to really "work those bunny hills" you want the speed reduced as much as is safe at the top of each one and let the car coast down and partially up the next one, using only the least amount of energy to get to the top of the next one as the slowest SAFE speed.

The only time you need regen is if the speed increases too much on the downhill, and if you need to stop for any reason on a downhill.

 

[smkettner]

Drafting trucks and overinflated tires:

http://green.autoblog.com/2007/10/28/mythbusters-drafting-10-feet-behind-a-big-rig-will-improve-mile/

Mythbusters did an episode about "Big Rig" trucks that included a look at drafting and they found drafting increases your miles per gallon up to 39 percent at 10 feet distance away from a big rig. At two feet apart however, they found miles per gallon actually went down.


100 feet behind - 11% increase in economy.

At 88 feet per second I believe the safe distance is 2 to 3 seconds so 176' to 264'
I know you can stop faster than a semi but I would prefer to be safe.