To keep the RAV, or not keep the RAV, that's the question?

[shade]

My lease is up in July, so this is a bit premature, but like many on this list, I've been thinking about whether to keep (buy) the RAV or let it go when the lease ends. My daily driving averages 20 miles a day with longer trips on the weekends. I have two kids that I routinely cart around. The EV really suits my needs.

My RAV is a 2013 and I'll probably have about 14K miles on it when the lease is up. Unfortunately, my residual is $23K and change (not the $19K that many were able to get a few months after I got mine), so with taxes, it isn't a no-brainer in terms of selling it on the market. It seems like I'd be closer to breaking even rather than walking away with much equity. One of my biggest concerns about buying is that Toyota is so uninterested in the EV market. They are clearly focused on hybrids and hydrogen. They don't want the car, they don't like the car, and they always act annoyed when I bring it in for service. It's a bummer. I can really see why people actively avoid compliance vehicles.

That said, I do consider just buying it and keeping it, as there isn't much out there that can beat it. If I bought it though, I think adding JDEMO would be the way to keep it current and more useful but would add to the total cost (all told just over $28K?) and that's when I think I should look to see what else is out there.

The more I research what would replace the RAVEV however, the more I appreciate it. The BMW i3 is nice because it isn't a compliance car like the RAVEV and has quick charging. It isn't truly a four door though, and with rear windows that don't open it is a deal breaker as my kids don't like being in the back with no way to open their windows. It seems like it is a two-seater with a back seat for occasional use only. Plus 1 RAVEV.

The Mercedes B-class seems comfortable for four (I haven't sat/driven one though), but it is the least efficient, doesn't have quick charge, and has a Tesla drive train like the RAVEV that sounds like has similar issues. Again, I feel like I'm back to the RAVEV.

The only real alternative is the LEAF. The new 30KW version has better range, it has quick charging, and is a true four door with rear windows that can open. This is definitely an option. The only bummer is that the 2017 version is so close, and will supposedly have 150-200 mile range and an updated cabin. That said, it seems like a LEAF is a viable option and probably the only thing out there that could replace the RAVEV.

For those of you out there that have the RAVEV and a LEAF (or have had a LEAF), what are your thoughts? Does it just make more sense to keep the RAVEV and add JDEMO? I know it's a bit of dead horse, but any perspectives would be appreciated.

 

[TonyWilliams]

For those of you out there that have the RAVEV and a LEAF (or have had a LEAF), what are your thoughts? Does it just make more sense to keep the RAVEV and add JDEMO? I know it's a bit of dead horse, but any perspectives would be appreciated.

The only people that the RAV4 EV is dead to is Toyota... there are PLENTY of enthusiastic owners.

Im a bit biased, but I think the RAV4 EV will be a classic, like the Tesla Roadster. It doesn't sound like you absolutely need the range afforded by the RAV4, so maybe a LEAF (or any other 80-100 mile range car) will work.

I've owned two Nissan LEAFs, and currently own:

Mercedes B-Class ED
RAV4 EV
Tesla Model S-70D

The RAV4 is my daily driver. That should tell you a little. Also, I have no need for 80 mile or less range cars.

 

[DevinL]

I had a LEAF for about 3 years prior to my RAV4 and I loved it. Completely reliable, comfortable, and enjoyable to drive. The new 30kWH LEAF is the same car, but better. That said, at this point I'm holding out for the Bolt or LEAF2 in 2017 which should have more range than the RAV4 in addition to better manufacturer support. GM and Nissan actually care about their EV customers unlike Toyota.

As to the B class, I've only driven the gas version through CAR2GO here in Vancouver but it is a very nice car to drive. With the electric power train I'd imagine it to be even better. The downside is there is no quick charge option available for the Mercedes either from the factory or aftermarket so to me that's a non-starter. I would not purchase any EV without quick charge capability at this point.

I've driven the i3 and I hated it even though I had high hopes for it. I test drove it back to back with the Kia Soul EV and walked away with the impression that the Kia was by far the better car. Some people like the i3 but I'm not one. Too many compromises and not nearly enough value. The Ford Focus EV (which we also had for about two years) was far more luxurious than the i3, but alas it has no quick charging and it's range is too low to be considered competitive today.

JdeMO does make the RAV4 a much more practical car, FWIW.

 

[4EVEREV]

For those of you out there that have the RAVEV and a LEAF (or have had a LEAF), what are your thoughts? Does it just make more sense to keep the RAVEV and add JDEMO? I know it's a bit of dead horse, but any perspectives would be appreciated.

The only people that the RAV4 EV is dead to is Toyota... there are PLENTY of enthusiastic owners.

Im a bit biased, but I think the RAV4 EV will be a classic..........

Like a very limited production car that will cost a fortune to repair, insanely expensive. There is such a small pool and so many issues and with limited and extremely expensive parts few would own one except to garage it as collectable.

 

[smkettner]

Currently I plan to buy mine (Feb 2017) and keep it until there are more choices in the EV market.

 

[TonyWilliams]

For those of you out there that have the RAVEV and a LEAF (or have had a LEAF), what are your thoughts? Does it just make more sense to keep the RAVEV and add JDEMO? I know it's a bit of dead horse, but any perspectives would be appreciated.

The only people that the RAV4 EV is dead to is Toyota... there are PLENTY of enthusiastic owners.

Im a bit biased, but I think the RAV4 EV will be a classic..........

Like a very limited production car that will cost a fortune to repair, insanely expensive. There is such a small pool and so many issues and with limited and extremely expensive parts few would own one except to garage it as collectable.

Well, I can't argue with that, except to say that you absolutely want the warranty. After 8 years / 125,000 miles, then I'll worry about plan B.

 

[4EVEREV]

can't wait to see how they handle the parts supply in a few years let alone 8, and if the wait times on repairs are any indication of the future I expect many people simply giving up on warranty claims.

 

[Larry_in_Seattle]

I'm VERY happy with mine and plan to keep it until either my 8ry/125k warranty expires or something even more irresistible comes along.

Even at the "high" price of the residual it's STILL a great deal for what you get.

 

[TonyWilliams]

can't wait to see how they handle the parts supply in a few years let alone 8, and if the wait times on repairs are any indication of the future I expect many people simply giving up on warranty claims.

Well, that seems to be up to Tesla. The market will also have used parts, and rebuilt ones.

 

[bdunst]

There were 1000 less units of the Generation 1 Rav 4 EV produced and there are still quite a number on the road. The few folks I know that have them - still love them and still annually get them serviced at Toyota. Some are almost 20 years old.
I bought my 2013 Rav4EV used for 28K and bought the extended warranty. Given there is nothing even close to this EV on the horizon - I expect to have it for many years. And I am going to buy another one when I find the right deal.

I had the Mercedes B - EV for less than 3 months - hated the car. I guess I may not be a mercedes guy. I had a different opinion on the Kia Soul EV - thought is was really sluggish and small interior.

We have an I3 REX - zero problems and my wife loves it. Not my first choice of a car - but it has a ton of cargo space and I can put it on a really small trailer and tow with my motor home.

I am on the wait list for Jdemo install and I expect I will either buy an additional battery set from Tony or do one myself in the next 18 months. The Volt batteries are out there for under $150/ Kwh - I am looking to convert an old VW Thing to electric and may use those batteries. - talking an additional 42Kwh for 6300 bucks and misc charging and bms, etc.

So we could have the only fast charging 250 mile electric SUV for maybe 40K invested - seems like a good deal to me.
I also expect - like all things with technology and cars - that the Tesla components will become much more accessible and supportable over time - if Toyota is involved or not.

 

[michael]

I can't imagine keeping the car after the lease expires. It's difficult getting replacement parts even now.

Plus...I expect 200 mile class cars to be available by then. The Rav had range that was something special in its day, but I expect (hope) for better soon.

 

[james]

After looking at the Rav4 EV survey

http://goo.gl/QtrlKu

The overall data looks pretty good to me. Not that many part replacements so far and the miles are adding up. I guess I have to assume that the most of the forum frustration is more around getting repairs fixed quickly than the overall reliability of our EVs

Correct assumption or is the survey suspect?

 

[4EVEREV]

can't wait to see how they handle the parts supply in a few years let alone 8, and if the wait times on repairs are any indication of the future I expect many people simply giving up on warranty claims.

Well, that seems to be up to Tesla. The market will also have used parts, and rebuilt ones.

Sure, rebuilt inverters and drives for a small fortune. Not much of a rebuild market for a 2600 car production. Wishful thinking though Let's not delude ourselves, the ICE parts are easy but....

 

[evdrive]

Definitely plan to keep my Rav 4 EV and add a Model 3, Model X, or a v2 Leaf.

I still see V1 Rav 4 EV's tooling around the bay area and my 2014 Rav 4 is a quantum leap better. There is no replacement available at a reasonable price. The Model X is awesome but X-pensive. I was hoping the i3 would not be as disturbingly ugly as it is. I had high hopes for BMW, however, they learned nothing from the ugly and polarizing Leaf, they bested it and built a weirder mobile. After driving a Leaf for three years, I don't plan to buy another ugly ev. I actually liked the Leaf except for the headlights that looked like warts.

 

[4EVEREV]

Definitely plan to keep my Rav 4 EV and add a Model 3, Model X, or a v2 Leaf.

I still see V1 Rav 4 EV's tooling around the bay area and my 2014 Rav 4 is a quantum leap better. There is no replacement available at a reasonable price. The Model X is awesome but X-pensive. I was hoping the i3 would not be as disturbingly ugly as it is. I had high hopes for BMW, however, they learned nothing from the ugly and polarizing Leaf, they bested it and built a weirder mobile. After driving a Leaf for three years, I don't plan to buy another ugly ev. I actually liked the Leaf except for the headlights that looked like warts.

I like the look of the I3 but I would never buy a overpriced BMW or want to deal with the many service issues. I was not impressed with it as an EV either.

 

[miimura]

My favorite non-ugly affordable EV is the e-Golf. We really like ours. It is better in most ways compared to a 2015 or earlier Leaf. However, it's not the in the same league of utility and range as the RAV. It is a good complement to the RAV4 EV but I would never consider it as a replacement for the RAV.

 

[fromport]

My favorite non-ugly affordable EV is the e-Golf. We really like ours. It is better in most ways compared to a 2015 or earlier Leaf. However, it's not the in the same league of utility and range as the RAV. It is a good complement to the RAV4 EV but I would never consider it as a replacement for the RAV.

I am so curious for the http://mashable.com/2015/12/30/volkswagen-budd-e-teaser/

When it goes on sale, it will boast a 250 to 310-mile range, making it a true competitor for the Chevrolet Bolt and the Tesla Model 3.

Will know more about it soon

 

[evdrive]

I'm have to admit that I'm excited to see the bolt unvailing and the new electric vw bus as well! It looks like our EV options are continuing to get better.

 

[n3ckf]

Hopefully i'll get to see the Bolt in person at CES in a few days... (CES is becoming an electric vehicle show event over the last 2-3 years)

 

[shade]

Thanks for all the thoughts and feedback. It's been helpful.

The Bolt news is out and it looks pretty promising. No release date as of yet, but it looks good.

I just took my RAVEV in for the recall notice and got the run around (no parts, we'll call you, it's Tesla's fault, Oops, got to go, another call...). It is such a bummer. I definitely feel like Toyota isn't even interested in hoping you'll buy a different Toyota some day.