California Electric Vehicle Submetering Pilot Program

[Dsinned]

Miimura, which is more cost favorable from your perspective for PG&E's solar customer who are over generating, E-6 or E-7 (assuming the latter is somehow still open to new enrollments)?

 

[miimura]

Miimura, which is more cost favorable from your perspective for PG&E's solar customer who are over generating, E-6 or E-7 (assuming the latter is somehow still open to new enrollments)?

If you are "over-generating" it doesn't really matter. Either one will get you to $0 well before net zero energy. After that it's all the same since PG&E will pay you a flat amount per kWh that you are a net generator.

This made me think of some people I know. They got solar several years ago when their kids were in high school. When they were both off at college their consumption went way down and they were over-producing and giving energy away to PG&E. So, they got an EV to eat up some of the surplus and drive for "free".

 

[dstjohn99]

Miimura, which is more cost favorable from your perspective for PG&E's solar customer who are over generating, E-6 or E-7 (assuming the latter is somehow still open to new enrollments)?

If you are "over-generating" it doesn't really matter. Either one will get you to $0 well before net zero energy. After that it's all the same since PG&E will pay you a flat amount per kWh that you are a net generator.

I'm with SDGE so my experience is not a direct comparison. But I did find that based on your individual energy usage profile (kWh, time of day) that the different time periods and rates between different schedules will affect which schedule gets you to "zero" faster (or provides more credits) thus making more kWs available for free car charging. I'm still on a slightly less favorable rate schedule than my analysis shows, but since I am not yet using 100% of my excess by charging the car I'm not too worried about it - only keeping a close watch. Obviously with excess production paid at ~.04/kWh I prefer to use it, but I have'nt been through the winter yet where my production is significantly reduced. I hope at the end of year true up that I will still be at or below zero for a zero energy bill or small rebate check.

Also, with SDGE I can switch rates with this trial, then switch back at any time. But if I call up and tell them "switch me to rate 'A'" then I am stuck with that rate for a one year minimum. So I wanna see how things play out with the trial before I request any non-trial related rate changes.

Cheers.

 

[miimura]

Miimura, which is more cost favorable from your perspective for PG&E's solar customer who are over generating, E-6 or E-7 (assuming the latter is somehow still open to new enrollments)?

If you are "over-generating" it doesn't really matter. Either one will get you to $0 well before net zero energy. After that it's all the same since PG&E will pay you a flat amount per kWh that you are a net generator.

I'm with SDGE so my experience is not a direct comparison. But I did find that based on your individual energy usage profile (kWh, time of day) that the different time periods and rates between different schedules will affect which schedule gets you to "zero" faster (or provides more credits) thus making more kWs available for free car charging. I'm still on a slightly less favorable rate schedule than my analysis shows, but since I am not yet using 100% of my excess by charging the car I'm not too worried about it - only keeping a close watch. Obviously with excess production paid at ~.04/kWh I prefer to use it, but I have'nt been through the winter yet where my production is significantly reduced. I hope at the end of year true up that I will still be at or below zero for a zero energy bill or small rebate check.

Also, with SDGE I can switch rates with this trial, then switch back at any time. But if I call up and tell them "switch me to rate 'A'" then I am stuck with that rate for a one year minimum. So I wanna see how things play out with the trial before I request any non-trial related rate changes.

Cheers.

I agree, one rate or the other will get you to $0 "faster" if you are using more than you are producing. My point is that if you are all the way down to Zero kWh, it doesn't matter because both of them would have got you to $0 a long time before that. Everything between $0 billable and Zero kWh is a gift to the utility, whether you are on PG&E or SDG&E. Only negative kWh (net kWh export) gets you a check from the utility.

 

[Dsinned]

On E-9A, during the Spring and Summer months, I was able to accumulate a surplus of about 550kWh as indicated on my PG&E Smart Meter even with a lot of A/C usage for a couple months. During the Fall and Winter months, I am slowly "withdrawing" from that surplus, so that by my next true up in April, I may have consumed more than I've generated and be on the other side of zero. After the PEV sub-metering trial, I will probably switch to EV-A and see how it goes.

According to the PG&E Toolkit app, based on past history, EV-A was predicted to give me about $400 in month to month "credits". Of course, in terms of actual monetized payback at true up, this translates to much, much less. On EV-B, during the trial, I will almost ALWAYS be charging my EVs during the off-peak rate, which is about double the off-peak rate of E-9A. My understanding now thanks to you guys, is that the consumption on my EVSE sub-meter cannot be offset by earning ANY surplus credits on my primary meter during the trial. So, the ONLY advantage of the sub-metering trial is the thousands of dollars saved by not having to install a dedicated second meter for EV charging. My annual electric bill before I got solar, was well under $1000/year, so I should still come out ahead after only 3 months minimum on EV-B, and in return I get to score a $450 JuiceBox for FREE! :mrgreen:

 

[srl99]

You only save thousands of dollars on the second meter install, if installing a second meter is something you want to do. I would only install a second utility meter if it saved money on the utility bills. My rough calc's were that I would never pay back a $2K install. E-9 was an excellent value for low usage, off peak. EV, isn't such a bad plan if you can control your peak usage, and move loads to off-peak. I don't have solar, which changes the analysis completely.

 

[dstjohn99]

I got my first $150 rebate from EMW via Paypal a couple of days ago. That was kinda cool. Unfortunately, my Ohmconnect account has disappeared and I can get a reply from anyone there to see what's up. I hope I still have all my points and historical data if I can get back in someday. Also my JB does not connect to wifi unless I unplug it, then plug it back in. But since the trial hasn't started yet maybe that doesn't matter yet. Hopefully things will get worked out over the next couple weeks.

 

[dstjohn99]

I got my first $150 rebate from EMW via Paypal a couple of days ago. That was kinda cool. Unfortunately, my Ohmconnect account has disappeared and I can't get a reply from anyone there to see what's up. I hope I still have all my points and historical data if I can get back in someday. Also my JB does not connect to wifi unless I unplug it, then plug it back in. But since the trial hasn't started yet maybe that doesn't matter yet. Hopefully things will get worked out over the next couple weeks.

 

[Dsinned]

Unfortunatley, the sub-metering trial seems to have gotten off to a slow start.

FWIW, I still have my OhmConnect account. I'm up to 1,112 points so far, but haven't yet tried to "Cash out". I'm still getting "#OhmHour" alerts every few days or so. The last one was last night until 10 pm. However, I usually don't find out about them until it is too lat, because I don't check my email often enough to know about them.

To best of my knowledge, I'm still in the queue for a sub-metering JB, but due to complications with PG&E, looks like I won't get into the trial until sometime next year (if at all). Apparently, I'm not in an eligible rate plan (yet) and this is the one thing about the trial I don't like. I've been in E-9A for ~2 years (for as long as I've owned an EV) and am currently grandfathered until this rate plan ends in March of 2015.

Early this week PG&E notified me of this plan's imminent demise by that time. I should be allowed to switch rate plans at the same time I enter the EV-B sub-metering trial, but instead I must arbitrarily change rate plans - to one less favorable - just to be eligible for the trial in the first place. This really makes no sense, because most EV owners in Northern CA interested in joining the sub-metering trial, are probably already in E-9A. We are just waiting for E-9A to end, because it is the most favorable plan we can have compared to any other available plan.

Anyway, it's good to hear some of you elsewhere in CA are getting started in the trial, albeit rather SLOWLY, after waiting patiently since late last Summer to receive a JB. :mrgreen:

 

[Dsinned]

dstJohn99, have you reported the problem with maintaining a WiFi link to eMW? They have a FB blog you can try that seems very actively monitored by somebody by the name of "George" who seemingly works for eMW.

Please keep us informed of how things work out for you during the sub-metering trial. TIA.

 

[Ferdball]

To best of my knowledge, I'm still in the queue for a sub-metering JB, but due to complications with PG&E, looks like I won't get into the trial until sometime next year (if at all).

Is this just because of your plan? Or does this affect all of us?

 

[Dsinned]

I'm sure many of us are experiencing various reasons for delays. Mine may be atypical just because of the existing plan I'm using with PG&E. But, I think those of us in Northern CA are likely to have the same issue because of the popularity of the E-9A rate plan. For reasons unknown, this particular rate plan is ineligible for the sub-metering trial even though it will be terminated in March.

Of course, I can simply change to a different rate plan NOW and thereby become eligible for the trial, but as some have said, that would not really be in my best interests financially speaking. I may do that anyway so I can obtain a "free" JB, which in turn saves me thousands of dollars by not having to install a second meter in order to be on the EV-B rate plan for up to one year. After that, I can revert to one of PG&E's other TOU rate plans like EV-A. I can't do that now, because EV-A is ineligible for trial as well. :roll:

 

[emotorwerks]

I got my first $150 rebate from EMW via Paypal a couple of days ago. That was kinda cool. Unfortunately, my Ohmconnect account has disappeared and I can get a reply from anyone there to see what's up. I hope I still have all my points and historical data if I can get back in someday. Also my JB does not connect to wifi unless I unplug it, then plug it back in. But since the trial hasn't started yet maybe that doesn't matter yet. Hopefully things will get worked out over the next couple weeks.

Glad to hear that, John! We do what we can to keep the pilot on a trajectory leading to eventual success, despite the slow roll-out and some other issues. As already mentioned, more established MDMAs have dropped out of the PEV pilot one by one, and Electric Motor Werks and Ohmconnect have been picking up the slack. Both are fairly young ventures, which might explain some wrinkles you have experienced. We monitor this venue and several others, but are unable to do so on a very frequent basis. Please feel free to reach out us through email ([email protected] and [email protected]). I have copied a post from Matt Duesterberg and Curt Tongue from Ohmconnect below. Please let them know directly if you continued to have problems. They will take care of you.

Sorry about the issues all! These should all be fixed now. And sorry about the late reply Have a great weekend!

Hi Guys - we pushed an update to the website (http://www.ohmconnect.com) yesterday and it caused a temporary break on the application side. Sorry for the inconvenience!

 

[emotorwerks]

Unfortunately, the sub-metering trial seems to have gotten off to a slow start.

Yes, Dennis. This is very true, and we regret that also. We are all interested in getting this pilot underway, and the other MDMAs are in a very similar situation. You are literally on the forefront of these developments.

We have identified an interim solution for the requirements imposed by the utilities and the CPUC. This was confirmed on a recent status call. This will likely result in the deployment of an additional device mounted alongside our JuiceBox charging station.

Irrespective of this delay, you can reasonably expect that you will get 12 billing periods on the submetered EV rate. There is a second phase in the works, which could work in your favor as well, if the first stage of the pilot ends up being successful. Please let me know if you had any other direct questions: [email protected]

To best of my knowledge, I'm still in the queue for a sub-metering JB, but due to complications with PG&E, looks like I won't get into the trial until sometime next year (if at all). Apparently, I'm not in an eligible rate plan (yet) and this is the one thing about the trial I don't like. I've been in E-9A for ~2 years (for as long as I've owned an EV) and am currently grandfathered until this rate plan ends in March of 2015.

Early this week PG&E notified me of this plan's imminent demise by that time. I should be allowed to switch rate plans at the same time I enter the EV-B sub-metering trial, but instead I must arbitrarily change rate plans - to one less favorable - just to be eligible for the trial in the first place. This really makes no sense, because most EV owners in Northern CA interested in joining the sub-metering trial, are probably already in E-9A. We are just waiting for E-9A to end, because it is the most favorable plan we can have compared to any other available plan.

Although Electric Motor Werks does not wish to provide any official tariff advice or information, I believe that your approach is correct. When in doubt, please verify your strategy and send any questions to PG&E directly. We can help identify a proper point of contact, if you had trouble reaching someone familiar with your situation there.

Anyway, it's good to hear some of you elsewhere in CA are getting started in the trial, albeit rather SLOWLY, after waiting patiently since late last Summer to receive a JB. :mrgreen:

The PEV pilot has been in the works for over three years. While we wish that progress was faster, I think we will get there eventually. Thanks again for your patience. Good things should come to those that have been patiently waiting.

 

[Ferdball]

The PEV pilot has been in the works for over three years. While we wish that progress was faster, I think we will get there eventually. Thanks again for your patience. Good things should come to those that have been patiently waiting.

So, can we get any kind of type of rough estimate for getting chargers? Weeks, Months, another year? How many are on the waiting list? How many in the first batch? How long for the second batch?

The reason that I would like to know is because I'm paying $75 monthly for a charger. If this is going to take another 6 months, it would be better for me to buy one. I would like to stop wasting money based on your estimate.

 

[emotorwerks]

The PEV pilot has been in the works for over three years. While we wish that progress was faster, I think we will get there eventually. Thanks again for your patience. Good things should come to those that have been patiently waiting.

So, can we get any kind of type of rough estimate for getting chargers? Weeks, Months, another year? How many are on the waiting list? How many in the first batch? How long for the second batch?

The reason that I would like to know is because I'm paying $75 monthly for a charger. If this is going to take another 6 months, it would be better for me to buy one. I would like to stop wasting money based on your estimate.

Ferdie, I just instructed Ohmconnect to queue you up for the next available set of pilot JuiceBoxes. We tried to prioritize new EV owners, since they don't have alternative home charging arrangements. My apologies if we have missed our objective in your case. I will follow up with you separately about your Jesla rental.

The PEV pilot is primarily a submetering test program, which comes with a number of requirements and strings attached. All MDMAs involved, not just Ohmconnect and Electric Motor Werks, had to contend with utility-specific aspects of metering and related regulation. As already mentioned, we have identified an acceptable solution for the current impasse this week, and are moving ahead with its implementation. This was the primary reason for the slow roll-out.

The enrollment period presently ends on February 28, 2015. All hardware must be in place by then. Although it's premature to talk about it, my best guess is that the deadline could be moved into the summer.

 

[Dsinned]

The PEV pilot is primarily a submetering test program, which comes with a number of requirements and strings attached. All MDMAs involved, not just Ohmconnect and Electric Motor Werks, had to contend with utility-specific aspects of metering and related regulation. As already mentioned, we have identified an acceptable solution for the current impasse this week, and are moving ahead with its implementation. This was the primary reason for the slow roll-out.

The enrollment period presently ends on February 28, 2015. All hardware must be in place by then. Although it's premature to talk about it, my best guess is that the deadline could be moved into the summer.

Please elaborate on what specific rollout issue(s) did the CPUC impose on MDMAs, and what is the solution? Apparently it is some sort of companion device to be co-located with the sub-metering JB itself. But, what is it, what does it do, and how does it work?

 

[Ferdball]

Ferdie, I just instructed Ohmconnect to queue you up for the next available set of pilot JuiceBoxes. We tried to prioritize new EV owners, since they don't have alternative home charging arrangements. My apologies if we have missed our objective in your case. I will follow up with you separately about your Jesla rental.

So, you're going to contact me with more details?

Also, which outlet should I have installed.

 

[fromport]

Also, which outlet should I have installed.

I would go with the 14-50
Left corner bottom, "279"
That is the one you normally often find for RV's.
So if you decide to go on a trip, best odds are you will find those the most.
Plus you make/buy some conversion units for the other 2 plugs ;-)

 

[Ferdball]

I would go with the 14-50
Left corner bottom, "279"
That is the one you normally often find for RV's.
So if you decide to go on a trip, best odds are you will find those the most.
Plus you make/buy some conversion units for the other 2 plugs ;-)

14-50, got it. Thanks.

I also found their statement here http://emotorwerks.com/products/online-store/product/show/54-juicebox-adapters-input-cables.

We have decided to standardize on one primary cable type: a 6-foot cable with a 14-50P plug (also known as the "RV 50A plug"), having 3 AWG 6-8 wires for hot terminals ground (JuiceBox does NOT need neutral for normal operation). This way we maximize portability (6-foot cord) and power handling ability (50A plug). This also allows you to plug your JuiceBox straight into the RV hookups anywhere in the country - there are over 15,000 RV parks in the US. This is almost double the number of public Level 2 charging stations today...