Dec 2014 sales Rav4 EV - "37" Production Ended Aug 2014

Dsinned said:

AvLegends said:

jspearman said:

Can't believe Toyota isn't moving the RAV faster in CA, especially with Prius buyers coming to the same lot. Seems like an easy upsell to the green consumer, but I think most people don't even know it exists.

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+1... People are amazed when they see my Rav4 EV. They say that they didn't know it was available. Don't know about EV's other than the Nissan Leaf. At least Nissan is getting the word out. Starting to see prime time Leaf commercials. Not sure if they are for the local market or national but glad to see them none the less...

Toyota needs to advertise these things!

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Yep, virtually no advertising, no bigtime magazine test/reviews, no visible association with Tesla, only a "me-too" battery warranty, no options (like available on a standard RAV4), limited exterior color choices, MSRP overpriced and likely to induce sticker shock on most ppl looking to buy an economical SUV or "family" car, EPA Label has 92 mile range (much lower than actual limit), terrible existing customer relations (scheduled charging issue, almost secret "loyalty" cashback incentive, and early adopters got screwed paying WAAAY more, higher APR financing, or got a woefully non-competitive lease), limited "authorized" dealerships, poorly trained Toyota sales ppl, and worst of all. Toyota has all but condemned this model to a limited production run, single market in CA, as a "compliance" car.

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One more thing... when people find out it has the Tesla drive train they are even more impressed. Toyota should capitalize on that.

It's almost like Toyota is afraid to open a pandoras box of interest if the word gets out. As Tony said (about Elon Musk's comments) they are not interested in making a full commitment to EV... EV-bad, Hybrid-good! :?

Number one reason Toyota is not selling more RAV 4 EV's:

They limited sale to a state that has the most abysmal economic record in the nation. Limiting your sales to a state up to
its eyeballs in debt and unemployment is not a strategy for success which belies the fact that Toyota does not WANT to
sell these cars. For the price, they are hands down the best EV out there.

Open it up to the Nation, Toyota. Advertise. They will sell.

Pennsylvania RAV said:

Number one reason Toyota is not selling more RAV 4 EV's:

They limited sale to a state that has the most abysmal economic record in the nation. Limiting your sales to a state up to
its eyeballs in debt and unemployment is not a strategy for success which belies the fact that Toyota does not WANT to
sell these cars. For the price, they are hands down the best EV out there.

Open it up to the Nation, Toyota. Advertise. They will sell.

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Im not so sure that is the best strategy at this point considering they are selling them at a loss. Thats not to say I wouldn't love for them to expand out to other states, that could only help us out-of-state-ers really, specifically if major service issues arrise.

That said I would agree that, at 39k price point, they would sell VERY well across the country, especially here in Denver where most only buy SUVs.

Opening up sales to other states would defeat Toyota's compliance mandate. Toyota is loosing money on every one they produce so why would they throw good money after bad. They need to move about 75 per month to average out the compliance production number. Not 275 and not to any other state.

How many times are people going to keep going down that road. If only Toyota would.......advertise, sell elsewhere, had leather, blah, blah, blah.

It is what it is and the RAV4EV exists just as the original RAV-EV existed because of one reason, CARB. You can thank the State of California for that! Without CARB, you wouldn't be driving your RAV4EV. Let alone a RAV4EV outside of California.

Although the state may have serious financial issues, it's still:
The Car Capitol of the Nation
The Most Populous State with Over 38 Million People
The largest number of millionaires, over 663,000 (the next closest is Florida with 369,000)
The median income ranks 9th in the nation (Pennsylvania is 22nd)
If California were a country it would have the 8th largest economy

In short, this IS the marketplace, by far! CARB set the standards and the others follow, just like the fuel economy standards which the Feds adopted.

While I agree that Toyota is not committing itself to the EV market and the RAV4 has been preordained to be a compliance car, I think I disagree with some of the above posts (edit: RecActVeh & Spiffster posted as I was writing this and I very much agree with their statements). I love my RAV4 EV and think it is a pretty great deal at the price I bought it (in March), but the price they are selling it for now is by all indications well below Toyota's costs. It really is not a sustainable business model to sell these cars all across the country with a significant advertising campaign at this price and this cost to Toyota. Adding additional options and colors just increases the cost to Toyota, especially if they are only selling 2600 cars. All Toyota is doing is trying to meet their California sales target (for ZEV credits) at the lowest possible cost. Even if Toyota was serious about EVs they would have developed their own EV battery and drive train as opposed to outsourcing to Tesla, but I don't think Toyota would be able to develop a system with the same performance as Tesla's at a significantly lower cost. So we are left with either a high priced EV that not a whole lot of people are going to buy or a cheaper EV that is going to have significant performance trades and try to compete in a crowded marketplace with still limited number of buyers.

Well I agree better trained sales people would help, since they are selling this car at such a low (if not negative) margin, I think dealerships would prefer to sell PIPs rather than steer those buyers to RAV4 EVs.

My apologies: I did not intend to offend the CA constituency. I agree with all posts that Toyota's price is likely below cost and not sustainable. In fact, my point was precisely that Toyota has no interest in selling, probably any more than they are. This post started out, I believe, as to why RAV 4 EV's are not selling like the Leaf or other EV's. My point is simply a mathematical one: The Leaf is selling around the world...the RAV 4 EV is, theoretically, only selling in CA. So, clearly they will not be able to sell similar number of RAV 4 EV's.

As an aside, most of the above stats about California's economic accolades are more a function of population density and Cost of Living. If you look at the same above stats per capita or adjusted for COLA....it's not quite so rosy. Having lived a good bit of my life in both the San Fran. area and the Boston area, I am well acquainted with the financial situation of coastal regions. Believe me, you can make 1/2 what you would in Boston area or San Fran area and live in the mid. states (actually midwest is much better ratio than even PA) and your real world income (Cost of Living adjusted) will blow away anything you can obtain in CA. That aside, this is not the forum to debate state side politics. But it's silly to believe that coastal folks have more spendable income for items like cars...Not true. Still, I am very grateful for CARB. I support its efforts and am eternally grateful that it spawned the production of a great EV that I could get at a bargain price.

Sales Tax in CA is a bit outrageous. I had forgotten about that. We used to call it Tax-achusetts in Boston. It's worth considering that in Delaware you could buy this car for 3 to 4k less just bc of sales tax differences.

Still, I completely concur. Toyota is not really interested in a business strategy for this car. That's why they are not selling. I will say, that if Toyota believed int he EV, I think they could producce one that would sell.

What I don't get is why - if this is just a compliance car - Toyota put together such an amazing vehicle! My RAV4 EV doesn't feel like a compliance car. There isn't any car like the RAV4 EV on the market and I couldn't imagine driving any other BEV at this point, although the Tesla Model X and Mitsubishi Outlander are coming and may change my mind (assuming Mitsubishi resolves its battery issues and Tesla stays profitable). I still have my Volt for longer trips, but it gets a lot less attention, now.

Even my wife, who was a die-hard V8 SUV fan (e.g., Cadillac Escalade, Infiniti FX50, Porsche Cayenne Turbo, etc.) says she won't ever go back to an ICE. The RAV4 EV did the impossible - changed my wife's mind!

EDIT: Yes, I realize the Mitsubishi is a Plug-in Hybrid (not a BEV) and only has a 12kWh battery pack (smaller than the Volt). But it has 4WD and a host of other advanced features, so I could see myself compromising for the right price.

RecActVeh said:

Although the state may have serious financial issues, it's still:
The Car Capitol of the Nation
The Most Populous State with Over 38 Million People
The largest number of millionaires, over 663,000 (the next closest is Florida with 369,000)
The median income ranks 9th in the nation (Pennsylvania is 22nd)
If California were a country it would have the 8th largest economy

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Don't forget our Governor... Moonbeam!

I'm very close to purchasing a 2012 with the amazing discounts they have right now but with the low sales numbers I wonder if they will offer the same discount on the (identical) 2013 models. I wasn't planning/budgeting for a new car right now but if I could get a 2013 in 6 months with the same discount the decision would be a no brainer, I would put a deposit down today. Does anyone think that Toyota will allow for the same discounts when the 2013s start rolling out in force? Is there a danger that the sales are so bad Toyota would kill this amazing compliance car altogether and buy the credits from another auto maker? I'm in the middle of putting on a new roof with solar panels and would very much like to put off the cost of a new car on top for a bit if the pricing isn't going to change.

Interesting points talking about the Leaf selling world wide. They sold 2,236 last month divide that for 50 states (no I do not know if the Leaf is sold in all 50 states) and that is only 45 cars in each state. That's half of what the Rav4 did past month in just one state. And as far as Toyota not caring about the Rav4 they do care, they are killing two birds with one stone. First taking care of the CARB thing ( the bigger bird) and second getting a lot of real world driving data from us so if the EV trend keeps going and surpasses the plug-in hybrid they will be ready. Also from what I have come to understand is right of the bat Toyota loses $50,000 of each Rav4 so dropping the car another $10,000 to get more cars on the road is way better than running a couple hundred thousand dollar add campaign to advertise the car more. I don't think they consider the $50,000 they mark off the car as a loss, to them it's invested into research.

I did this on my phone so sorry if auto correct jumped in and changed things or I just can't spell.

the2bobs said:

I'm very close to purchasing a 2012 with the amazing discounts they have right now but with the low sales numbers I wonder if they will offer the same discount on the (identical) 2013 models. I wasn't planning/budgeting for a new car right now but if I could get a 2013 in 6 months with the same discount the decision would be a no brainer, I would put a deposit down today. Does anyone think that Toyota will allow for the same discounts when the 2013s start rolling out in force? Is there a danger that the sales are so bad Toyota would kill this amazing compliance car altogether and buy the credits from another auto maker? I'm in the middle of putting on a new roof with solar panels and would very much like to put off the cost of a new car on top for a bit if the pricing isn't going to change.

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As I understand all the cars are 2012 models. This is what I was told by the dealership that I bought from last month as well as one of, if not the largest volume dealership selling the Rav4 EV, Dianne Whitmire at Carson Toyota. Talking with her she seemed to be one of the most knowledgeable salesperson out there.

My Rav4 EV was delivered to the dealership the last week of February 2013 but the sticker says 2012.

Damchi said:

Also from what I have come to understand is right off the bat Toyota loses $50,000 of each Rav4

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Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

I love Dianne, I got my '05 Prius from her and if all goes well I'll probably get my Rav4 EV from Carson Toyota as well. I know that there's no difference but oddly enough my local dealer had a 2013 Rav4 EV show up which concerned me that the deal won't last. I've run into issues with limited release future packed cars in the past (I had one of the first Honda Civic Hybrids) but I don't mind being a bit on the bleeding edge so long as the manufacturer stands behind it. Toyota has done well for me in the past so I'll probably take the plunge and join the ranks of happy Rav4 owners

Damchi said:

Interesting points talking about the Leaf selling world wide. They sold 2,236 last month divide that for 50 states (no I do not know if the Leaf is sold in all 50 states) and that is only 45 cars in each state.

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There's no way Leaf sales are evenly distributed across all states.

From http://www.nada.org/Publications/NADADATA/DrivingUSEconomy/, CA alone accounts for ~10.4% of US auto sales. EV sales by extension are the highest in CA.

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/11/09/california-leads-in-green-car-sales-but-there-are-surprises-on/ mentions that CA alone bought 32% of all EVs during that study.

Of corse they are not evenly disturbuted across the states. That was just an example of an average.

Green Car Reports is claiming that Toyota only managed to move 70 RAV4 EVs in April 2013.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1083871_april-plug-in-electric-car-sales

I'll bet they will exclude the 2013's from the financing promotion through the beginning of June in an attempt to flush the 2012's out of the dealer channel. Only then will they apply it to the 2013's during the Summer.

miimura said:

Green Car Reports is claiming that Toyota only managed to move 70 RAV4 EVs in April 2013.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1083871_april-plug-in-electric-car-sales

I'll bet they will exclude the 2013's from the financing promotion through the beginning of June in an attempt to flush the 2012's out of the dealer channel. Only then will they apply it to the 2013's during the Summer.

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The 2013 cars were already out and is already excluded from the deals. Plus, the 2012's are almost all gone.

TonyWilliams said:

miimura said:

Green Car Reports is claiming that Toyota only managed to move 70 RAV4 EVs in April 2013.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1083871_april-plug-in-electric-car-sales

I'll bet they will exclude the 2013's from the financing promotion through the beginning of June in an attempt to flush the 2012's out of the dealer channel. Only then will they apply it to the 2013's during the Summer.

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The 2013 cars were already out and is already excluded from the deals. Plus, the 2012's are almost all gone.

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Cars.com shows 75 RAV4 EV's throughout the state. 49 are 2012's and 26 are 2013's. However, the inventory at Wondries has looked suspicious for a while. They list 17 cars total, with 10 2012's with no picture and most of their listings have "Dark Charcoal" for the color, which clearly does not exist.
South Bay (Silicon Valley) dealers are not showing any inventory of RAV4 EVs. Meanwhile, Sunnyvale Nissan is showing 93 Leafs, none of which are the low priced Leaf S model.

I meant to ask about that. The car I put a down payment on, and that is scheduled for delivery to the dealership next week, is #1528. So that is number 528 overall? Wow. Today I saw my first Rav4 EV out in the wild on route 80 near Sacramento.

TonyWilliams said:

I think they started at 1000, because my serial number is 1134. I'm reasonably confident that means after 30 odd prototypes, I'm about 134, not 1134.

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Assuming 36 months is required for 2600 units for CARB, 72 per month need to be sold.

On sale: September 24, 2012

Sep 2012 - 61 ........... 61
Oct 2012 - 47 ........... 108
Nov 2012 - 32 ........... 140
Dec 2012 - 52 ........... 192
Jan 2013 - 25 ............ 217
Feb 2013 - 52 ............ 269
Mar 2013 - 133 .......... 402
Apr 2013 - 70 ............ 472
May 2013 - 84 ........... 556
Jun 2013 - ............
July 2013 - ............